THERAPY IN MOTION | COUPLES EDITION | VINCE & PARRIS PART ONE

KING OJ BRINGS A SPECIAL EPISODE OF THERAPY IN MOTION AS HE SITS WITH VINCE & PARRIS HOST OF THEIR PODCAST" FOR BETTER OR WORSE AND THEN SOME" HE LEARNS THEIR STORIES AND HOW DIFFERENT THEY WERE WHEN THEY MET. THEY SHARE THEIR INSIGHT ON TRAUMA AND HEALING AND GROWING WHILE SUPPORTING EACH OTHER. THIS IS PNLY PART ONE SO LISTEN NOW CAUSE PART TWO WILL BE AMAZING!!!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

What's the news? Welcome to another episode of Great Emotion and the greatest coaching of all time in OJ, aka the Zen Master. And today I have two very special guests with me. I'm excited to introduce them and you know we got Vincent Paris. Hey. Hit the comment, hit the comment. Alright, so first thing I like to start off with a wellness check. How y'all doing, man?

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Well, um, you know, bloopers aside for us, I have to do this all over, you know what I'm saying? I was okay now, you know what I'm saying? I'm all emotionally all wounded up, you know what I'm saying? But no, I'm good, man. I'm good. I'm good. I'm um I I really have been um reflecting on gratefulness this year a lot. So um I think I'm just now more so just being more in a state of gratefulness and gratitude, man. So I've been good.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

I'm doing good overall too. And I I'd have to say I'm trying to be more intentional of what I choose to focus on. So even though like some challenges might come up, I might be feeling away about one thing. I try not to stater. Like I still try to be, but yeah, this is happening, but what about all this? All a lot of good stuff that's going on, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

So let's get started. Start with carriers.

unknown 1:33

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

So how are we gonna do it this way?

unknown 1:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:37

I'm gonna do it up until I met.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

That's fine, that's cool. Up until you met. That's cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

Alright, so I was born and raised in Detroit. Uh I would say I lived a very like blessed life, but sheltered for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

Uh I would say my mom and my dad both very hardworking people, but my mom, she was more of like the structure of my life, and my dad was like the fun, easygoing, spur of the moment. We don't have to plan it, let's just do it type.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Spontaneous, dad.

SPEAKER_03 2:10

Um trying to think. I, from as long as I can remember, I've always loved school. Um, my mom and my dad, they put me in a Christian school, private school early on. Um, I was there from preschool up to fifth grade. They wanted to try me in public school. It was pretty hectic, pretty crazy. Um, they took me out, put me back in private school up until eighth grade. Then after eighth grade, I ended up going to public school or high school. Now, let me go back real quick. So, in fifth grade, my dad passed away. And that's when I would say, like, I could pinpoint my life just kind of took a turn, or it just felt different after that. Because, like I said, my dad, I was a daddy's girl through and through. I was like his little road dog, his little road buddy. He we go to like the store, and I'd be riding up to the store. Anywhere he would let me go with him. I just wanted to go. So I was always with my dad. Um, but he passed away when I was in fifth grade, and then that's when life was kind of changed for me. I was always like a happy lucky go kid. But when that happened, I I it kind of dimmed me a little bit. Um and then my mom ended up getting remarried when I was in eighth grade, and then that's when we ended up moving from Detroit. So again, from birth on up to then I was in Detroit, and we end up moving to the suburbs, and that's where I went to high school. Um, I'm the oldest. I have a younger sister, a young younger brother. Um, but being the oldest, I always felt like I had to be responsible, the responsible one. Same thing with school, because I was the first. I feel like my mom was like, I think even now being parents, it's like that first kid, you really try to do your best, you give it your all because it's the first one. So I feel like that's how her and my dad were so when it came to school, she did not play. You did not play about school. Um, but so I was kind of like an overachiever in that aspect. Being the oldest and thinking I had to do or accomplish so many things. Um, but yeah, high school, again, still love school. Um, did well in high school. Um, but I think I had a duality because I love school, but I love music too. I love to create. I've always loved doing like arts and crafts, just making stuff. Um, and that's kind of how my dad was. He was always into music, loved to sing, and then I just kind of loved, fell in love with singing the music because of him. Um, so that's always kind of been there in the background for me. Um again, if I wasn't in school, I was in church. My mom always kept us in church. Um, so I was in choir, I was in drama, I was in the dance team, I was on the usher board. Like I was just, and I think again, when my dad passed away, that was her way of keeping us out of trouble. Because at that point, I was 10 and my sister was four when my dad passed away. And then again, just to keep us busy, like we were always in some type of activity at church. Um, but because of that, I was very sheltered. I didn't really hang out like that with friends, middle school or high school. It's like I went to school, went home, did my homework, was in church. I didn't really have much of a social life at all. Um, and then my sister, she was the opposite. She was always doing something, always into something, always like the social person. Again, I think she got that from my dad because he was very social. Very social life at the party. Um, like lived in the moment. Um, he didn't really get too caught up in like the worries of tomorrow. Like he was just like, today is the day, let's do it, let's leave it to the fullest. Um, so having that like dynamic again, I think it did help me kind of be more balanced the older I got. Um trying to think what else. High school. I think my senior year is when I ended up meeting you. Yeah, that's pretty much my upbringing, all in all. Again, pretty sheltered, not very traumatic, just regular.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

Plain and simple.

SPEAKER_03 6:33

Basically, yeah. I don't I see you go ahead, I'm gonna let you know.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

He was like a plain bagel, and I was an everything bagel. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

So I don't want to eat past that. So I just like both of that transition and your popping bad at that young of an age. Yeah. A lot of people can't, you know, take that as an adult. I know I couldn't. My popped died when I was two. So I know that like a major both to eat. So as a child, I really couldn't even imagine how that would be to make you feel at that moment. Like our mind is nowhere near developed at that point.

SPEAKER_03 7:13

Yeah, yeah. All all the stuff you're saying are really good points. Um, trying to think. So again, my dad, because of the type of person he was, and he understood that me and my sister were young. He literally like told my mom, you know, don't like basically tell them to the extent of it. Like, um, because I mean there was some time between him finding out and then, you know, it getting terminal. So, I mean, there was still a nice, you know, chunk of time. And again, being a kid, my focus is like, again, kids' stuff. I'm not never thinking like, oh, I'm gonna lose a parent. Right, right. In my mind, it's like, oh, I've seen you every day my whole life. Like, that's just gonna, that's that is what it is. Right. But um, I do remember, because I was in fifth grade, and then it's just like um, like certain memories. I don't rem remember the whole stint of it being sick, but I do remember towards the end because again, my dad was very involved. He was picking us up from school, taking us to school. Once we got out of school, he was taking us a little Caesars to get that little uh big slight. Like he was so involved, and that kind of came to a halt. So I was like, what's going on? Like, and again, my mom honoring his wish, not to necessarily tell us what was going on. I just remember family members coming and them coming to their room and them sitting in a chair. Like, and I don't even remember seeing my dad when he was really sick. I don't have a picture of it, but just those memories like that, and then I remember one day my mom, like they were really good at distracting me and my sister. We still didn't have a clue to put that together, but I remember my mom took us shopping and she brought us home, and then I remember being excited about what I got and I wanted to show them. And that's when she kind of sat me down and she just kind of told me what happened, but even then it didn't like make sense. Yeah, it's like you said, your understanding of the world is only developed so much at that point, so it still doesn't make sense. Like, what does that mean? You know, and then you go to the room and you don't see him there, and I don't think it really hit for me until like the day of the funeral, and that's when like all the family is there, like his brothers or his siblings are there, you know. My mom, her side of the family is there, like that's when it became real. Yeah. Um, that okay, this is permanent. Like, it's not just an idea, this is permanent, like this is real life. And even past the funeral, it's just like, and I think after the funeral, again, the family they're trying to like keep your spirits up. Because again, I'm telling my sister was four at the time, and he passed away on her birthday. So for her, that's a whole nother like journey now that she's older, understanding that he passed away on her birthday. But um I remember my mom telling us like that was his prayer that he would at least make it to her fourth birthday. Yeah. Um, but for me, it was just like I don't think I fully understood it until like the older I got. So it kind of started at 10, but it didn't stop. Like it's just my understanding of what happened kind of grew as I grew. Um, but at 10, I just remember having to go back to school. And that was weird, you know, because my whole class they because we were, I think they I ended up being out of school for like a week or something like that. So having to go back and like all my classmates know why I wasn't there, like that was weird. I'm like, yeah, you just like how do you go back to normal for sure? Sounds so catastrophic like that. Like, so and that's the first year I went to public school. So to me, it's like, oh, that was a bad year. I don't want to go back to public school. Yeah, because that's kind of roped in with it. Like it was already a different experience being in public school. Because in private school it was like 10, 15 kids, but it was 30 some kids in there. I'm like, whoa, what's up? Everybody bounced. So I was like, get me out of here. I'm ready to go back to what's like normal for me.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Yeah. And then to even think, like, you know, the amount of sh the amount of resilience, like mentally wise, I guess I'm thinking that you're that that your mom takes you guys shopping that day, like in her mind she knows your dad is gone. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, so to have to like take you guys out and you guys are having fun, and she can see y'all having fun, but she knows there's a moment this conversation has to happen. Like that to hold that in for an entire day while also presenting herself as like I'm having fun with you guys, is like like you was talking about, like being 20-something and losing your dad is just like now imagine having to say that about your partner and then to the kids, it's like bro, how can you how do you keep yourself in check knowing like that's just like I can only imagine like her her ability to hold herself together for a day like that?

SPEAKER_03 12:20

I would say coming out of that, like as time went on, it almost kind of made me step up in a way where I'm like, okay, well though my dad's not here, it's just me, my mom, and my sister. So the I would say it wasn't a lot of time to grieve, if that makes sense. Yeah, hey, come on. I'm the oldest, and I'm talking about it.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

Sometimes we still be grieving to this day, you know what I'm saying? So I I definitely get it. I definitely get it. Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 12:48

It wasn't like a a a down period that I remembered. It was almost like we went to the funeral, we did the funeral, we did all the things, went back to school, and then we just kept pushing. So she took me out of you know public school, put me back in private school. Um, and then again, me being the oldest, I'm like, all right, it almost felt like that's when the people pleasing kind of kicked off too. Cause I'm trying to make sure she's good. I'm trying to make sure everybody's good. Because as the oldest, that's just naturally. Sometimes you just fall into that role of just trying to make sure everybody's okay. Right. Um, but I remember again, people would try to help out here and there. They would check in on us here and there. That fell off eventually. Oh, yeah. Um, but ultimately, again, my mom, again, she is resilient in that way. Like, I don't remember seeing her crying during that time. Now, in retrospect, when I've talked to her about it, she's like, Yeah, I would cry at night a lot. Yeah. You know, after I put you and your sister, then I have my moment, but not in front of y'all because again, I felt like I had to be a physical representation of stability. Yeah. I didn't want y'all to feel like any like level of instability because y'all see me break it down and losing it. So she's like, Oh, I had my moments when y'all were asleep though. Yeah. So, but again, that also kind of in an unhealthy way, kind of, yeah, because I'm feeling like, well, she ain't crying, I shouldn't be crying.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

You know, so it's like the very thing she's thinking to do out of a sense of duty also hurts the emotional intelligence to help you guys feel like it's a good deed, but it also backfires in the sense of it it takes away something else.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

Right, right, right. So I got a question. Do you think she had enough support in that moment? Or the right support in that moment? Because it makes a difference to us.

SPEAKER_03 14:45

I think I would have to tap into her upbringing just to tab it. Probably not. I don't think she was necessarily taught, like you said, the right type of support when it came to stuff like that. Because like her, my granddad, and my grandma, they grew up in the south. And it was during the time of slavery. And I remember him telling us stories about how he'd have to pick cotton and all this type of stuff. Like, so being raised by that or somebody coming up out of that, there was no room for emotion. Yes. No room for emotion. Like I remember my mom saying, like, it was rare that my granddad would just flat out tell them he loved them. Like to him, me going to work every day, providing for y'all, that's me showing, telling y'all I love you. Right, right, right. So I think when it came to my dad passing away, again, I think she did it in private and in secret. But at the same time, she also, there's a level of pride she has about herself too. And I feel like she had to keep up that facade during that time. So I don't think she always reached out and asked for help. I think she just muscled through some of it. And then if it got to the point where again she just couldn't do it, then she would ask for help. Like it wasn't, it's when she was basically exhausted. Okay, I gotta get some help. You know, like it wasn't a proactive thing that she did. But when my dad passed away, and you know, it was me and my sister, she did ask my granddad to start helping by picking us up from school because again, she had to work. Yeah, so I mean, in that aspect, she did ask my granddad and my aunt to kind of help out with that part. But as far as like again, make sure sure we had everything we needed, because we even went to grief counseling for a period of time too. But it's just like I think again, she took that head on by herself, like a lot of stuff she just did herself. But um, yeah, I it was tough. It was tough to take that on in 10th grade. Like you said, I didn't fully understand it. And then again, because it's grown with you, it just kind of hits you out of nowhere. Right. You know, these emotions or these thoughts, or again, it's just like being 10, you don't feel I guess the offense of not knowing. Or like feeling like I didn't get closure. Like I would have loved to have told my dad I loved him one last time, or have that last. But being 10, I couldn't vocalize that. I didn't fully understand it. Right. But being in like middle school, high school, I'm like, man, I really wish I would have had the moment to tell him I loved him or that I was thankful for all the memories. Like all that type of stuff comes up later on. Right. And let's say she's moved on to a certain extent, but now I'm kind of going back. You know, I'm regressing in my grief because I was 10 when it happened and I wasn't fully aware to think of those things.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

Right. But it was tough, it was not easy. So, did you have any form of counseling at that age or at any point to help with the grief?

SPEAKER_03 17:57

Uh, my mom did us, she did put us in like a counseling program. Um, it was called Sand Councils. I don't know if they still do it, but it was like a grief program for like all ages. So they had it for adults, they had it for like me 10, and then they had it for like my sister who was four. Okay, it covered all ages. And again, it would be for it was just grief in general. So it didn't have to be for like if you know in my case, my dad died from cancer. But it was other people there who like their family members got shot and died, or it was just any like type of death that happened, they had like little focus groups for everybody to like talk, communicated. I know in my age group we did activities to kind of help, like, well, let's make a memory, or think of your like the the best memory or a good a great memory that you have with that person and let's draw it out, you know, stuff like that. Or my sister again, they just kind of kept busy, and then they would be there. So if they wanted to talk, they could, but they're like four or five, like they don't again have a full understanding of how to explain how they feel, right? But it's other kids that they can play with and I guess get support that way. Then my mom, it was more in depth, you know, because it's all adults. So y'all going around a room, kind of asking these like prompting questions about stuff like that. And we went, I would say, like a few months and then we just stopped. For me, I was like, I don't like going, because again, I knew I didn't like talking about it, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:28

True.

SPEAKER_03 19:29

And I didn't like going into this focus group with other kids I didn't know talking about it. So I told my mom, I'm like, I don't want to do this no more. I'm like, I think I'm good. Right. I think I'm good. Right. So again, my sister, she's like, well, it is what it is. But my mom, she's like, All right, if you don't want to go, we don't have to go. So that was kind of the beginning and end of the grief counseling. It was a short stint in that program. But then after that, I would just say again, she kept us in church, and I think that's she really started to lean more into us going more consistently and going to Bible study and just finding a community and support that way. Um, but yeah, that's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Okay, um, so Vince, we're gonna tap into your upbringing.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Man, so here we go. So here we go. Man, no, um, man, so I grew up on the west side of Detroit. Um Schoolcraft, Evergreen. Um, you know, I grew up on a very um, a very like tight-niche type of neighborhood block. You know what I'm saying? We would we didn't have a neighborhood watch or nothing, but we were just very it was almost like my my block always felt like a sitcom type of block. Like we had the drug dealer, we had a family that went to church. Like nobody else on my block went to church but that one house. And the dude was a pastor, and everybody used to be like, Morning, pastor. You know, and he used to stay look, God bless you. Like, and I still to this day know his son and that family. But um, it was like we had, you know, it was a family that had like eight kids, you know what I'm saying? A big family on the block. We had a dude who he had like the fancy cars on the block. We had the dude that had like two Siberian hushkies, he was the mechanic with the cars always in front of his drive. It was just like we had those things, man, but it still was the hood. It was like it was still surrounding like violence and stuff around the hood and stuff like that. But um, as long as you was on the block, you was fine. Everybody knew everybody we used to break the water holes, put the the hoop on the on the street. We did all that as a community. But um, you know, there was the thing of just being like, Okay, I get locked out of s my house, I go next door to my neighbors, like any other good neighbor would do, you know, and wait for my mom to get home. I just Gotta sit away from the cocaina on the table. You know, and and it was like they they though they did that, it was like they did that out of respect, weirdly. You know what I'm saying? Like we got respect for your moms, they go sit in the kitchen, you know what I'm saying? Like, it wasn't like they just was like, hey, young blood, go you know, they didn't involve me in it. They was respectful enough, like, you don't do that. Your mom's ain't like that. Don't sit over there till she comes, you know what I'm saying, and and don't say nothing. You feel what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:29

Like, I can do that. You know what I'm saying? So, um, but it was just a it was an interesting uh neighborhood, man, that you know, nowadays I don't even see or feel in my own neighborhood. But um I grew up my mom's, my my mom and my real father, they split when I was born. My mom gave my dad a choice, like, listen, I'm pregnant, got this kid, either go help me raise it or you're not. My dad was like, you be good. Wow. So um my mom ended up marrying my stepdad when I was like two. And um she had never told me that my stepdad was my stepdad. So until I was 14, I thought my dad, my stepdad was my real dad. So um I just be like, dad, this, dad, dad, whatever. You know, I just never thought he was, you know. So um, but the issue was like my dad, my stepdad was a drunken alcoholic. Like, to whatever TV show you can imagine, whatever experience you, that was him. Like he was the the he was the one that's gonna fight you, he go tear your house up, he go everything. You know what I'm saying? And it was one of those things where like I remember being like six or seven, and like him being drunk, drunk, like bitch drunk. And I come out my room to go to the kitchen, and he's standing in the hallway between his bedroom and the bathroom. He's like standing in the corner, like, and this is a thin corner between the bedroom and the bathroom, you know what I'm saying? But he's standing in the corner, he's just peeing in the corner. Cause he's drunk, he didn't make it to the bathroom. He thought he was in the bathroom. And you know what I'm saying? He's just like in his drawers peeing on the wall. And I'm just standing there like shocked, like, what ma! You know what I'm saying? What's going on? Like, you know what I'm saying? And then, like, you know, they fighting, I hear come the cops, and then my my, you know, my um granddad is picking me up, you know what I'm saying, because I gotta stay over there for the weekend, because it's a whole commotion thing now, you know, everybody wanna block since we just type block, everybody on block looking, like, uh, you know what I'm saying? I'm like, uh, my life sucks, you know what I'm saying? Like, so um, as I grew up, man, like, it wasn't until I was like 13, 14 when I met my real father. You know, I was taking karate. And um this man was staring at me in class. And there's only like seven kids in this karate class. So our seven parents show up all the time. So we know each other's parents. So I'm looking like this is a random dude in our class just watching us. And he's watching me very intently, and I'm like, so I'm just doing my stuff, we get ready to leave. And as me and my mom are like walking out to the car, he's like slowly pacing behind us. So I'm like, this man following us. She like, oh okay. I'm like, no, this man following us, bro. Like, we get to the car and he's walking up on the car, I'm like, ma. And she like, this is your real dad. And I was like, huh? Man. And so we went to his uh brother's house, um, who stayed like right across the street from the YMCA I was going to. And we sat at his brother's house, and I'm meeting my uncle. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, yeah, it's this guy. You know what I'm saying? And so um my dad is just selling me this whole like, son, it's so good to see you. You're so big, man. And I'm like, who are you? You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't my and you know, and so he's trying to explain. Him and my mom are trying to explain to me, like, why, you know, they didn't work and he left and um, but at the same token, my dad is this drunk that I know. So I'm partially celebrating, like, yes. This man ain't my daddy. Yeah, because it just there was this weird thing where I just felt like me and my dad never got along. It was this weird like thing where it's just like, why don't we mesh for father and son? Like, we just don't mesh. You know what I'm saying? And so um, I'm thinking like, you about to come back and replace my stepdad. This is great. Yeah. Um, and so I'm just like, you know, I leave the meeting and I have this like expectation out as a kid, like, great, we about to go home and kick him out. And then dad about to come back, and then my dad was like, he be good. And he disappeared on us again. What? So um that's when things got bad between my stepdad. Because I think at that point the illusion was gone.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:20

And I think his pride got in the way. And I think that's when he his drinking got worse. I think that's when the issues with me and him got worse because now I'm standing on like, you ain't my daddy. And I'm not gonna let you talk to me this way. Because before, I, you know, my he would cuss me out. He would say some horrible things to me, you know what I'm saying? But I'm like, this is my dad. What I'm supposed to say back to my daddy, you know what I'm saying? Now he like, you know what I'm saying? He he's saying stuff, and I'm like, hey, you hold on, cuz I know the real, you know what I'm saying? So so you know, but at the same token, now I'm putting myself in a position where I gotta fight. Yeah, I gotta defend myself because now you can't whoop me. You trying to whoop me, and I'm grabbing the belt because I'm like, but you not my pops, you ain't about to whip me. Now we in a shoving match and we used to a swinging match, and I'm for I'm 15, 14, fighting this grown man. Yeah, trying to like defend myself because if he's drunk, this ain't just oh he gonna push me around. Now he's trying to choke me. Now he's trying to take me out. Like, and so we going back and forth to the point, like we didn't tore the house up. You know what I'm saying? Now my mama, either she's home or she's not home, she comes home and she like what's going on. And I gotta explain to her, you know what I'm saying? There was a time that um before all of this, my my dad had stepdad had whooped me one time. And he had whooped me to the point I had all these welts on my body. And I remember my mom having to take me to the police station, you know what I'm saying, to like do a whole report. And they like take, had to go in the bathroom, they had to take pictures of the welts, and they had to go arrest him and stuff like that. And so like I'm living with all of this now at 1415, being like, we not doing this. Yeah. So, but at the same token, I'm not physically built and prepared to fight a grown man. Right. Because I was never a fighter growing up, you know what I'm saying? So it was like I'm learning how to fight through him. Which is kind of like a thing where it's like a dad kind of that's kind of like, oh, I'm gonna teach my sons how to box, but I'm like, I'm learning how to box the hard way. For survival. For survival. Yeah. This ain't like, let me teach you how to defend yourself, son. I'm like, no, defend yourself. And I'm like, oh, you know what I'm saying? So it was, it was plenty of times where it's like I then had to figure out how to navigate even existing in my own home. Because it's like, if he's upstairs and he's drunk, I have two choices. I either stay in my room for the rest of the night. Which means either A, I don't eat, or I don't drink, or I have to sneak to the kitchen, grab as much food as I can, to then take back to the room to get through the night. Or I leave the house for as long as I can until my mom gets home. Because she's the only person that had to stand up for me. So it's like, it's either hide and survive, or run away until I can be safe, or somewhere in the middle get caught in the crossers and have to fight my pocket. You know what I'm saying? So doing that for years, man, like it was just like it was hard having company over. Yeah. Because if I got company over and he come home drunk, I'm like trying to explain to my friends, like, ah, they like, why you locking the door? You know what I'm saying? I'm like, y'all don't even know. You know what I'm saying? Like, or you know, or if he come to my room drunk and like he tripping, they like, what's wrong with your poff, bro? I'm like, yeah, you know what I'm saying? So it was just like, and anything would set him off. You know what I'm saying? I remember washing dishes being on the phone, and he was just like, You always trying to talk on the phone and wash dishes. It's like, man, just leave me alone, bro. I'm like, just let me clean this kitchen, man. He like, man, get off that phone. I'm like, bro, you ain't been here all day. I ain't doing, bro, just chill. Leave me alone. I'm just trying to clean the kitchen. Mama asked me to clean the kitchen, man. Just let me chill. I mean, he came and took the snatched the phone off my ear and threw it at the wall and it broke. He was like, nah, what you gonna do? And I'm like, bruh, what is this, what, what's the show? I said, man, and I tried to walk past him, and that's when he grabbed me. We just talked, and it was like that, it instantly, it would happen like that. You know what I'm saying? So we didn't, I mean, fought on the front long, you know what I'm saying? People done seen us had to come break it up. Like it's just it was at a point where I was like, man, I am truly trying to survive now from like 14-15 to 20. You know what I'm saying? Um, and little did I know him and my mom had got divorced around that age. Around my 14, 15. So now he knows that I know who my real dad is, and he just lost my mom. And some for some odd reason he's getting spousal support and he ain't moved out either for the like for the next five years. So I got two single people living together at odds with each other, and I gotta live with it. You know what I'm saying? So it was like, and and and at the same token, I still need his help because I don't have nothing. I'm a kid, I don't have a car, I don't have a license, I don't have so I still need him to drive me off, I still need him to take me to places, I still, so I still have to fight this man, but then turn around and be like, hey man, can you take me to such and such? You know what I'm saying? So it was just like this weird thing of of surviving and compartmentalizing my feelings because my mom got to work so she can't come home every time. You know what I'm saying? I remember one time um we got into it, we had an exchange of words, and I left to my friend's house down the street. And I remember I said, man, I'm about to grab my game and stay the night at your house. And he's like, alright. And I went back to the house and he tore my entire room up. He had flipped my mattresses over, he broke my TV, my game is all over, books everywhere, clothes torn out the just because he had a fit of rage when I left. And I'm like, bruh. And I done called my mom, Ma. This man tore my room up, bro. Like, so like, I gotta, what you wanna do? And I get it. As an adult with a kid, it's like, bro, I can't do everything for my daughter. But in that moment as a kid, I'm thinking, like, my mind can't even save me, bro. You know what I'm saying? And I just thought, like, I remember going down to my friend's house because he had like a BB gun. And I was like, bro, give me the gun, bro. I was like, I'm about to go down there and threaten him, bro. Woo doo. And he like, no, bro, just chill, wait till your mom's get home, stay here, woo-doo. But it was just like I had gotten so to a point where I was just desperate for anything. You know what I'm saying? Um, while also juggling the fact that my father keeps popping in and out of my life. Right. He leaves at 14, he pops back at 16. Son, I love you. I'm trying to, I'm about to see you, I'm about to see you$300. I'm about to send you all these clothes. What kind of clothes you like? I'm about to send you all these clothes. You about to get your license? What kind of car you want? I'm gonna get you a car. And I don't see him again until I'm 20. So now I'm struggling with like my real dad doesn't love me enough. My stepfather hates me to a certain degree because of his alcoholism. My mom can't save me. So yeah, my grades suck. I'm in, my mama said, put me into a boy's home because my behavior has lost it. My temper is through the roof. I don't have really any friends. I'm starting to dabble into things young now. I'm drinking, I'm smoking. Because I'm just trying to find a way to survive because I'm going through so much and there's no there's no answer for it except to just deal with it. You know what I'm saying? Um and then again, I I met um this girl from the summer program at 16, um, who invited me to a party, which led to me having to go to church with her the next day after the party. And it was the first glimpse of hope that I had. Because I was able to go to church and be at church all day and not have to be home. And because of the more you get involved in church, the more you at church.

unknown 35:23

Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

Now I'm at church Sunday, I'm at church Tuesday, I'm at church Wednesday, I'm at church Friday, I'm at church Saturday. Now I have every reason to not be around this church again. Okay. But at the same token, I'm finding God. And I'm finding I'm finding friends who are encouraging me. I have found a mentor at the church, a guy named Randy, who by every stretch of the measure became my spiritual father for like the next 20 years of my life. You know what I'm saying? Who mentored me because he he saw what I was going through and he would be the first person to be like, Parker, you got this. You know what I'm saying? You listen, call me whenever you need something, whatever, you know. If you need to stay here, come stay here. You know what I'm saying? But it was the first man who actually chose to invest in me. And and, you know, the girl, her father, um, he was the second person to invest in me. So at that, so at the same time as I'm going through this hurricane of life, I'm meeting instrumental people who will help me become the person I'm going to be. You know what I'm saying? I'm meeting Randy and Sterling, two men who became, again, they were like my spiritual fathers and investors in my future. You know, um, they were the first men who I actually respected and understood what they saw them love their wives, saw them raise their children, saw what a peaceful home looked like through a man. You know what I'm saying? Um, you know, uh, I started meeting friends who became, you know, the the glue of like people I could vent to and talk to. You know what I'm saying? A place where I felt accepted as a you know as a kid. Um so those things became instrumental, man, and then um eventually I'd run into uh this one right here. And and and and she would, you know, again, help me with so much, man, but she didn't understand a lot. And she would wake me up for work sometimes, and she would like bust in the room and shake me, like, babe, you late. She never understood that my stepdad would do that. I would be sleeping, he'd just wake up boxing. You know what I'm saying? Or he'd wake me up and like grab me, you know what I'm saying, and be like, oh, you left the light on in the bathroom, nigga. You know what I'm saying? And just be trying to go to war. And she didn't understand while she's being considerate, she's just like, babe, you gotta wake up. I'm waking up like thinking I'm still. You know what I'm saying? And and and or even just I was very selfish when we met. You know what I'm saying? Because I didn't want to share stuff. Because I came from myself, like, I need this food. Right. This is food that I I'm gonna sit in my room with for the next eight hours to survive. So now that I'm grown, you want us, you just want some of my chicken salad. And I'm like, what? No. Because I'm having a survival mental mental break of like, right, this is all I have. You know what I'm saying? So um, you know, man, it was tough, man. Um, you know, growing up, but when my stepdad finally did pass a year ago, um I was able to finally see him in a more vulnerable state, and I saw him more as a man with a life full of flaws that he couldn't take back. The only thing he could face now was the cancer. And I forgave him in that moment because I did not want to hold on to this origin story of a villain who made my life so terrible, and use that as a crutch for my emotional trauma. Instead of just saying, like, I can forgive this man for not having all the answers, realizing that he came from a broken home. His dad, the things that I heard that his dad did to him when he was young. You know what I'm saying? It it made me see my stepfather for the broken man that he was trying to raise somebody else's son. Right, right, right. Then finding himself divorced without a job, sitting at the corner. My stepdad would sit at the corner with his friends. They would sit at this abandoned building. It was an abandoned liquor store. They would park all their cars up there and they would sell peanuts, watermelon, or they would just sit up there and drink until the sun went down. And sometimes, like, I would pass. I would walk to my friend's house and I would pass him three, four, or five times a day. He would just still be up there. And I could see him from across the street drinking with his friends. We wouldn't even acknowledge each other. I'd see him, he'd see me, I'd keep walking. He would be up there for hours just drinking. His friends go buy him a beer, he go buy another beer, he go buy another, he's gonna run out of money, that guy go buy everybody beers, he go buy some liquor, and they go keep drinking. And they was just, you know, a group of men who were just wallowing in their own whatever. You know what I'm saying? And he did that for years. I didn't see him work for years. I just saw him sit and drink for years. Um, so that's where I, you know, that was my my upbringing, man. You know, not as uh safe and sound as my wife's. No West Bloomfield, you know what I'm saying, none of that, you know, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

Well, uh, I know how that could, you know, take a huge toll on you, especially as a child. Yeah. Um, so basically I want to know, does that little boy that you used to be ever show up in 2026 looking for you to wrap your arms around him? And like basically let them know we good now. You know what I'm saying? We grown, we handle our own, you know what I'm saying? Ain't nobody gonna get us like that no more. Ain't nobody gonna corner us and you know, mistreat us.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

For sure. Yeah, I uh hugging him right now, you know what I'm saying? Hugging him right now, because it's it's like, man, I still, now that I'm a father, yeah, it's it's so much more triggering. You know what I'm saying? When my daughter was first born, I could not even connect with her. I didn't even it was like I was so happy that I had a kid, but it internally I was at war with it. Like I was just like, she would cry, I would get irritated. She, you know, if it was my turn to do something, I didn't want to do it. I was just like, I didn't, I wanted no parts of the kid. Yeah. And it was tough because I didn't know why. Yeah. Because I'm like, this is what I wanted. I wanted a girl, I wanted to have a daughter. I'm excited she's here, but now I can't even connect with the child. I don't want to hold her, I don't want to do none of this. I'm just like, and I remember, you know, God telling me one time at night, he was like, man, you gotta go see your dad. Because I was struggling with the fact that I had to be something that I had never really seen. And I had to be something that I had never had. So I was like, now I have to play this role, but I've never seen this role personally in my own life. I've had mentors, right? But I don't live with them. Right. I yes, I've been in their house, I've seen how their house operates, but that's still not my dad that had to raise me, that's somebody else's dad who I just got to know. Now I have to be something I've never seen or been with. And my only experience is one I had to fight and one who abandoned me. So what do I do with lines? And so I remember, you know, God telling me, like, you need to go see your father. You gotta close some chapters. And I think it's interesting that it was not my stepfather I had to deal with first, it was my real father I had to deal with first. But I remember I told my wife, I said, we gotta go. I need to go. My dad is, uh he lives in Alabama. So we gotta go to Alabama. I need to see my dad, because if I don't, I'm not going to be in a condition to raise my daughter. I'm going to traumatize her. Because I'm already traumatizing her. I'm already like, you ever seen the movies, the baby yelling, and the person yell at the baby? That was me. She crying, I'm like, when I'm yelling at the baby because I'm just tormented. So I'm like, we gotta go see my dad. She's like, when I'm like, right now. This weekend, we gotta go. She's like, what? I'm like, we gotta go. My covert daughter was like, she was only six months.

SPEAKER_03 43:22

I'm like, even six months.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

Maybe she was like four, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:25

Still on maternity leave.

SPEAKER_01 43:27

I'm like, we gotta go.

SPEAKER_03 43:28

It has to be like three months, no more than four.

SPEAKER_01 43:30

I'm like, we gotta go. And she's like, okay.

SPEAKER_03 43:36

I'm like, man, I gotta make bottles on the road, trying to pack up this formula. Man, diapers and white.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

And I don't I'm gonna be honest, I don't know how we got down there and backfit naturally. We really didn't have it like that, but we did. It didn't work, but it was it was life changing. You know what I'm saying? The conversations I was able to have with my dad, and I able I was able to see him. For how his flaws, too. Because I always kept thinking, like, maybe my dad just was misunderstood. Maybe I'm not seeing something. And I just got to see, like, no, he's messed up too. So it gave me closure. Like, he's not, you don't need him. He's not the example you need. He's not just Superman. He's not. I had to kill the little boy in me that still wanted his dad.

SPEAKER_02 44:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:25

And I had to show that little boy, here's your dad. And my dad is not, he's he's not a great person. He's worse than my stepdad. And that little boy had to accept he's not gonna come help us. That's not the answer. I had to accept my mom wasn't the answer. She wasn't gonna be able to save me forever. My stepdad wasn't gonna, you know what I'm saying? I had to forgive him later before he even died. You know what I'm saying? So there were these things that God has sent me through, man, throughout life, but it started with my daughter and me having to correct myself emotionally and dealing with something traumatic as the relationship with my father that kind of dangled itself over me. Um and when I did that, man, and I came back, it was like a a switch was flipped, and I was able to be everything to my daughter that I had never gotten back. You know what I'm saying? In my own life. Things that I just don't even know how I do for her naturally, it just happens.

SPEAKER_00 45:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:24

You know what I'm saying? But I'm always amazed because again, I never saw it on a day-to-day basis.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:29

But I walked through it sometimes flawlessly with my daughter. But it's very just it's amazing just because had I not done that mental work or that mental health work and seen my dad and dealt with all that emotionally, I would have been in a very, very stuck place, man. In a very, very crazy emotional place that would have traumatized her probably more than I would have even recognized. You know what I'm saying? So okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:58

So, Paris, we're gonna jump back to you. Um, you were talking earlier about times where you will overthink. So, I want to know how do you operate in times where you overthinking or just being in the overwhelming mind state? Boy, good question.

SPEAKER_03 46:18

I know how you gonna have a response.

SPEAKER_01 46:23

I'm I'm even listening for this one.

SPEAKER_03 46:30

You could track the progress.

SPEAKER_01 46:31

No, for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:33

When we first started dating, Jesus Christ. I would say like the overthinking, where did that come from? Part of it is indecisiveness. Like, I have a hard time like just sticking with the decision because I tend to weigh out the pros and cons. Okay. So I'm trying to compare the past paris to the present. So past Paris is I gotta I gotta do the pros and cons. And if that doesn't work, then I start like catastrophizing. So I'm like, okay, if I do this, then this might happen, but then I'm gonna miss out on this. And so again, he had to deal with he had to deal with that version of me. And I think he helped a lot because he's just like, what's the worst that can happen? Just make the decision and then act accordingly. And I think the other part of that why the overthinking started was because I don't think like my mom intentionally was doing it, but a lot of the times it was just the pressure of always having to make the right decision. Right. Like, and then sometimes if it wasn't the decision, let's say she was hoping I made, it still wasn't a terrible decision, but how she responded sometimes made me feel like, oh my goodness, like I screwed up.

SPEAKER_01 47:48

Yeah, shame.

SPEAKER_03 47:50

Shame. Yeah. I think past uh Paris, that was like the over. I did not deal with it well. I did not. A lot of the times it's like I And people pleasing.

SPEAKER_01 48:01

People pleasing. When you're people pleasing, you're always trying to make the right choice that makes other people pleasing.

SPEAKER_03 48:05

Because I don't want to let anybody down. And again, because she's the only parent I had left. I really don't want to let her dominate in any way or bring her any shame because she's doing so much for me. Yeah. Um, but I didn't handle it well back then. And then it would show up in different ways where it's just like, again, people pleasing, or again, I would like overeat, or it's like I would sleep a lot because I'm like, I don't want to make the decision, I'm just gonna sleep it off.

SPEAKER_00 48:32

I would prepare. Like it's not gonna still be there when you wake up.

SPEAKER_01 48:36

Man, just like let me just mm-mm. I don't know what's gonna be going, mama.

SPEAKER_03 48:42

Man, when I and I I would do it, because even when we were dating, like I got so much back, got so much pushback from dating him. A lot of the time, I would just sleep. I was just like, all right, nice to see everybody. I'm gonna take a nap. Like, I because it was just too stressful for me to like deal with. I would just go and sleep, or I would overeat, like, or again, it's just it I would procrastinate with a lot of stuff because I didn't want to make I would overthink it to the point I would just be stuck, like I would be frozen. Like, um, but presently how I deal with the overthinking is I think I've gotten a lot better at again just recognizing okay, why am I having a hard time? Is it fear? Is it anxiety? Right, is it stress? And then just kind of talking my way through it, or again, even including him in that thought process. And he's like, Well, that doesn't make sense. That's a lie, that's not true. And just trying to focus more on the facts of like, okay, the decision I have to make. So I think I've gotten a lot better at the overall. I don't do it as much. Sometimes it's just like, oh, let me just do it. Just do it. And I'm like, right, don't let me change my mind. Yeah, just give me this or that. Okay, let's just do it. But he's helped a lot. He helped me a lot because he's really good at making decisions. But I honestly, before we started dating or before we were friends, I struggled really bad with that, with the overthinking.

SPEAKER_00 50:14

Okay, so how do you calm yourself in those overwhelming moments?

SPEAKER_03 50:20

I will say, depending on what it is, I still have those overwhelming moments. And I need like an outside source to kind of ground me. Okay. To bring me back. Um, sometimes that outside source is like meditating or praying. Yeah. Um, again, it's like focusing on something that's true or factual. Because again, you for me, overthinking, I think you look you focus on hypotheticals. Yeah. Like it's not like reality, it's just like what you made up in your mind. Um, so I again sometimes Vince is the outside source, or praying is the outside source. Or again, for me, it's like I have to speak it. Because sometimes I get too like caught up in my thoughts, and that becomes loud. And it's so loud that now I have to start actually verbally saying stuff out loud to kind of quiet some of those thoughts that are trying to take over. Um, so those are just some things that I use to kind of help again quiet it and bring the peace back. Or I get up and just like, okay, let me get out of this environment. Let me go take a walk or something.

SPEAKER_01 51:33

Right.

SPEAKER_03 51:34

Or just go do something else and or take a break and come back to it. So it's just, yeah, shifting my focus is another thing I do to kind of keep that peace.

SPEAKER_00 51:46

So, Vince, I got that same question for you. Like, how you uh how do you go about decision making and stuff when you um in an overwhelming mind state or just you know, your thoughts going crazy, just everywhere with it.

SPEAKER_01 52:01

Um so far, honestly, for me, I find things that help me to um I create the space for me to process. Cause for me, I have to process. You know, I need time to think things through. Um, so there are a lot of times I take late night rides and and I will just listen to music or I will talk to, you know, a company of one. I talk to myself while I'm riding, and it allows me that space to have unfiltered kind of conversation with myself to talk about things or express my own thoughts and or work them out. Why am I thinking this? Okay, well, maybe this. And so I can drive and be into myself and do that. Um I should say prayer meditation all the time. Um, you know, I have people who I I lean on as kind of people I can talk to, kind of bounce stuff off and say, hey, I'm thinking this. What you do? How you feel about that? You know, hey, if I did this, man, what you think? You know what I'm saying? In your opinion, what would you do about this, that and other? You know, and I just try to hear other feedback that can either help me understand more of my position or give me alternatives that I'm not thinking about. You know what I'm saying? Like, oh, Brian, think about that. You're right, okay. Um, but I just try to, I always try to make decisions that I feel like I can stand on. That I like, that I have a lot of belief in. And sometimes, I'm not gonna lie, you know, you can stand for something that don't always be right. And my wife would tell she'd like, I don't think you should stand for that. You know what I'm saying? But the reason that I have so much confidence in making decisions is I'm willing to stand on those decisions. Um because I believe in it. And if I feel like as long as I believe in it, then it's at least worth taking a chance on standing on and making that decision. You know what I'm saying? So um there was uh there was a period, you know, where um you know I wasn't working, and um people were just, you know, up in arms, like it was their business, you know. Why you ain't you ain't working, you ain't blah blah blah blah blah blah. But at the same token, I'm I'm literally doing everything in the under the sun for my daughter. I'm I'm the only source for everything. Her appointments, her going to school, her not going to school, her being sick, her needing to go somewhere, her having to prepare for something. I'm literally doing all of that. So it's like in that moment I realized that my role at that time was I just have to be a father. I have to be just a solid father. And for people who's just like, ah, but you're not doing this, you could be doing this. And I was just like, that's my decision. I'm just not gonna worry about work right now. And I'm just going to worry about being there for her because that's what she needs from me. And that's what the household needs from me. So I'm gonna play that position for that. You know what I'm saying? And so um, that's how I've helped parents a lot of times is I'm like, what do you believe in? What do you gonna stand for? If you make this decision, does it matter to you or does it matter to other people? Is this gonna benefit you or is it gonna benefit other people? Does this serve all of us? Does this serve me as your husband and your daughter? Because that's how I make decisions. If I'm gonna go somewhere, if I'm gonna be a part of something, if I'm gonna spend my time doing something, I'm like, does this benefit my wife, my daughter, and me? Does this help our household? Does this get us further? Does this whatever? And then from there I can filter out, okay, is it worth my time? Do I got the gas, money? Do I got I can filter out the rest, but the first starts is does this serve me and mine? And if it does, then we figure out how to do it. And if it don't, then we figure out why it doesn't serve us and if there's an alternative. And if it's not, then we just don't do it. And that's it. But I I think I spent time and I've been in her shoes of being a people pleaser or trying to do things that I thought appeased people. And after failing people miserably for years, I realized like that was stupid. I need to make sure I serve me first and mine, and here I have served all these other people, and people still don't like you after you do stuff. People still won't support you after you do stuff for them, people still don't. So it's like, yeah, let me focus on me and my family. And I'm still gonna piss y'all off. You know what I'm saying? I'm still not gonna make people happy, or whatever the case may be. But I know that I'm making my household happy.

SPEAKER_03 56:32

It sits right with you, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 56:34

It sits right with me and God, so okay.

SPEAKER_00 56:37

Um, I got you, I got you. Um, this one for parents. What's your definition of neglect?

SPEAKER_03 56:46

So neglect, I would say uh if you know the the right thing to do or the best thing to do, and you choose not to do it, um I would say it's a definition of neglect. Um an example of that for me again is just like in retrospect thinking about like different uh like relationships where that might have come up. Um like one that I can think of is like again with my mom. Um again, my mom was a great mom. I can't say much negative about her, but in certain aspects of our relationship, our dynamic, and like how she kind of raised me, there were areas of neglect where I felt like versus her kind of teaching and guiding, it kind of felt flat. So like learning how to speak up for myself or voicing my opinion with her, it almost felt like or it was set up where it's more instructive, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:50

Like follow these instructions, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03 57:52

No complaints, yeah. Like no complaints, because I do this, that, that, and the other. So you're gonna do what I tell you to do. Right. And again, that makes sense in certain situations, but if me being like a teenager, even a young adult, it almost felt like if I didn't do what she told me to do, it was gonna be a problem. And then again, that kind of backfires because again, as an adult, you need to know how to defend yourself, you need to know how to speak up, you need to know how to stand in adversity when like the opinion you have is not like the majority. Like that stuff matters. Um, but I think again, that is neglect in situations like that where it's like it wasn't a teaching moment. It was verse, it was just like, okay, do what I tell you to do. Right.

SPEAKER_00 58:37

So in mo in these moments, like how do you deal with neglect when the person always shows up with a band-aid?

SPEAKER_03 58:44

And that's a good question, because that's exactly that's the dynamic of my relationship with her at that time. Um, I think when I was in it, I didn't deal with it well because it it went on for a while. Like I didn't really know how to tackle it because like Vince mentioned, it's like the person that you're dealing with is also someone you have to go to to like help you make it in life. So it's like, how do I act? How do I tell her, well, I feel like you're neglecting me in this way, but at the same time, can you go cook dinner or can you help me? I need to, you know, buy new shoes for this, or I gotta do this activity at school. Can you help me with my homework? Like, how do you navigate, you know, that part of the relationship? But I think again, Vince kind of helped me to like see the real about it and how negatively it was affecting me. So when I got older, it was hard at first, but I had to be more vocal and tell her in a moment when things were happening because that's something else I ended up developing. Is because I didn't say it in the moment, I was sit on it. So when I did bring it up, she was like, Well, why are you bringing up like what is this? I don't so it didn't seem relevant because I didn't address it in the moment. So I think as I got older, I I understood the importance of addressing the behavior in the moment so that you can see, see, there's a pattern here. Every time we have a discussion where we disagree on something, this is like how you respond, and that doesn't work for me. Whereas before I started to like understand that and acknowledge it, she wouldn't know the difference because I never voiced how it affected me or how I felt about it. So it just continued.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:37

And a lot of times when you don't speak up in the moment and you save it, then when you kind of do start to speak up for yourself, it seems a little bit manic. Right? It doesn't say if it is more you have more reason when you do something in the moment. Right. Versus when you say you bring up something later, somebody's like, where that's coming from? Like it's almost like it's dismissed because what they're gonna do with now.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:58

It seems it's more valid if you bring it up in the moment.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:00

For sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:01

So that's what I would do. And again, that like you said, the little band-aids of oh, because again, when situations like that will happen, she could tell I was deflated. Because, you know, I I just shut down. I didn't say anything. It went from a two-way conversation to just a lecture because I would be deflated, I would stop talking, and then that's where the band-aid would come in. Oh, well, I'm just saying this because I love you. Yeah, care about you. I just want, you know, I'm just saying about your well-being. I I just want the best for you. You know, I know it might have sound this way, but that's not, you know, how I'm meant it to be. But it's like I'm deflated. So however you're communicating in my mind, you would see, okay, it's not effective. She's not taking nothing in. I need to switch how I'm talking to her. Because this way is not effective. It's not building her up, it's not, you know, keeping the discussion the two-way thing. Right. But again, like as I got older, I again, those that no, no, no. If if your um goal is to again try to guide me, support me, you're gonna have to talk to me differently. You can't do that, we're not about to talk about this. So you're limited. Right. If what we're gonna talk about, what I'm gonna share with you, what you have influence on, is limited now. Because I don't that band-aid, like you said, is not it's not fixing anything, it's just covering stuff up and it's making things worse, you know, in the meantime.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:27

Right. So do that that like make you have regret that you didn't speak on it earlier? Yes. So, okay, so with that being said, how do you give yourself grace knowing that you had that regret, but how do you give yourself grace to where you're not like overthinking and like damn, I should have went back and you think about it every day, like, damn, I should have went back and I would have just said I would have said, you know what I'm saying? And then it's a two-part question. And then how do you go about the forgiveness side for whoever that person is? I wish I had a button that was like, he died.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:08

Don't miss. Don't you gotta know? Yo, yeah, he didn't miss. Don't miss. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:13

Man, okay, so the first part was how do I give myself praised?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:17

Yeah, grace and forgiveness. It's the second part.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:20

Okay, so the great, I w there was a period where I was so frustrated with myself. Yeah. I was so frustrated with myself because I was like, Again, it's like if I would have known that or again, just had that understanding then, I even feel like the state of our relationship would have been better. Like it wouldn't have been as hard for her to understand like how I was feeling and how it was affecting me. Because, like he said, it can be off-putting where now I'm like in my 20s and I'm married to him, and now I'm telling you, like, well, no, I don't like when you say this. Because when I was, would you you talk like this to me for all this time and I'm not taking it no more? She's like, What? Where is this coming from? Like, it's really off-putting.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:10

It's a character switch up, yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:12

Yeah, and you're like, you don't know where it's coming from, and again, all this it's almost misleading for the other person.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:18

Yeah, and can I say this? Sometimes people think that this is the other, this is your partner talking, and not you. Oh and it's like at the same time, no, this is just me, but I didn't know how to voice myself though. Shot fire, bruh.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:36

And now that did another aspect of the discussion. Yeah, he naturally thinks, oh, he's been in her ear since they got married. You know, this ain't really her. Yeah. Again, it's just there was a safe space with him, though, where I could openly talk to him about it and not feel like, oh, I'm being dishonorable or I'm being disrespectful because I have an opposing opinion about something. Like, even when we were dating, like, we would still talk about stuff, and you know, we might disagree, but it wasn't to the extent that I was used to. So I was able to, I guess, speak more freely in my relationship with him than like the relationship with my mom. So to her, it's very off-putting, it's a little misleading, but I did have to give myself grace because I was really frustrated. I'm like, man. Again, I understood the work I had to do, but at the same time, I was really frustrated with myself because I'm like, it wouldn't be this hard if I just would have started this sooner. Yeah. Or it wouldn't have been as hard if I wasn't a chicken about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:44

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:44

And just said because like I told him, I feel like him and my mom, they're really great at like expressing their point. And they're really good at like debating stuff. So, like, I'm not good at that, I'm not gonna say it. For sure. But I'm like, it caused more damage. So I was like, well, Paris, again, you just gotta give yourself grace because you didn't know then what you know now.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:04

Even in our marriage, it was like that though. Because if we had a disagreement, you know, you struggled with being honest with me about your viewpoint because you're thinking about like, I don't wanna fall out. I don't want to offend him, I don't like confrontation. Yeah. So I'm coming at you like I'm on law and order, and then you like, you're shutting down because you don't want to have that come that back and forth, and and and so then again you come back days later. I'm ready to voice it, and I'm like, no, I'm over that.

unknown 1:06:36

I was over that day.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:37

We're done with that, you know. But I don't think black, I don't think we talk about that in the black community in our families, where it's like we don't really give children the grace to grow up and then start to criticize us as parents, and so we don't get that as kids. There was never a day when your parent was like, all right, now tell me what you think of me, right? Because it was like, whatever you think of me, don't your parent, like, I don't care.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:00

I'm out here with you.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:01

You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, so it's hard to be a kid where you start to grow up and then you realize, like, my parents have flaws, they be on bullshit, and then you like, how do I, how do I honor my parents? Yeah, but how do I also not sit here and say, like, this ain't I'm not rocking with this? Yeah, this like I'm old enough now to have my own program. I'm not rocking with this. And for the parents to feel safe enough to let your kids criticize you, where you can actually look at yourself and say, maybe I'm doing something that they don't like and I should respect that.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:35

Right. So again, I did give myself grace as far as just like being patient with myself and again just being understanding of again what I didn't know then and what I know now. And the forgiveness part, that was tough too. Because in my mind, you know, I think mental health became more of a thing around that time too. So I'm watching these videos and I'm starting to put words to how I felt for a really long time. And then it's just like it made it hard, it made it challenging to forgive. And like I was watching Ayala Fix My Life for I was like, I was obsessed with audience. We was watching them Ayana Fix My Life shows tuning in for every episode, like that's me, man, that's me, and to watch like how she coached them through again, for giving themselves grace and then forgiving the other person, that helped me a lot too during that time. Yeah, because I'm like, I I really wanted to go to therapy myself, but I was like, I'm gonna do it y'all in the meantime, because it's working. I feel like I'm learning stuff, I feel like I can apply it. I keep breaking it down to where I understand and I'm good.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:46

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:47

So then I would like to watch that, and then it's just like I did end up going to therapy, and then I did tell my mom and my sister, I'm like, we should all go together. Because again, the last time we went to therapy was with my dad. Yeah. And then again, I started feeling like a lot of the weight of that or residue of that was starting to come up in our relationship in ways. Okay. I'm like, we should just go like to therapy, just to you know, make sure we're good, we can get tools, because our communication was just not it wasn't there because again, me and my sister are grown, but my mom is still kind of in that mindset of y'all, my kids though. Like, we adult kids though. So it's like our communication, we need to switch this up. Because not only am I your adult child, I'm a wife and a mom.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:36

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:37

I'm paying my own bills. And you can't keep, we can't keep talking.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:42

We're more like sisters than we are mother-daughter, right? Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:46

But that forgiveness piece, it it came eventually, but it was tough at first. But again, like Vince talked about, you then start to take your parents off that pedestal and you start to see them as just human. So even though it's like I am gonna extend this grace and forgiveness to you, but I'm also gonna tell you moving forward what I need. Right. And if you can't fulfill that or if that's a challenge for you, it's gonna look like this. But if you're open to trying to understand and like again, learn something new when it comes to this aspect of how we communicate and our relationship, it'll look like this.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:28

Okay. Ooh, that's a good one. Um, he just made me come up with another question that quick. So I'm gonna since he said boundaries, that's just gonna scratch out my question I was about to bring up. How important is it to have boundaries in life?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:48

Is that to both of us?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:50

That's to both of y'all. Because it's Vince's question, so he might as well answer it first.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:54

Well, first, yeah, that makes sense. Um, man, boundaries are so important, bro. I and I say this as I I struggled with having boundaries because I'm such an empath and I'm such a uh a connecting person with people. I'm such an open book. So I've had to learn the hard way about boundaries because I don't I don't have a under like belly tone to me where I'm trying to like I have this alternative mode. So when I'm meeting people, I'm genuinely being myself, genuinely giving myself to people. Um, I I genuinely meet people where they are, and then you know, it's again the same way we met, it's like I'm sure I'm the one who approached you, you know what I'm saying, in conversation. Not like you came to me like, hey Vince, yeah. I'm the one coming up to the front, like, Wan, what up, man? You know what I'm saying? Like, and you know that from you know us working together. I was the one, you could see me around work by mounts around talking to people. What up, what up, what up, what up, what up, what up.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:56

Yeah, but I think that's how I had I think it was like a debate though about who the best rapper was. It was a couple of us going around talking about it, and then me and you just happened to be in passing. Yeah, and I just heard some super ridiculous thing that Will Smith was the greatest. And I said, Wait a minute, hey nah, I wanted to disrespect your whole existence when you told me that.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:21

I still feel this way.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:24

I said, he told me that. I said, yeah, mental health is crazy, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:30

That's what he was like, I got a podcast idea for people like you.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:36

As long as I've known him, he he believed that. That ain't nothing, Brent. That has been in him since as long as I have known him.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:45

Man, but it's like you know, it's like Paris was talking about like her dad. Like, I will meet people, man, and I'm genuinely like, what's up? You know what I'm saying? I and so I've had to learn boundaries the hard way because I've I've opened myself up to people um too much. Uh, you know, I've invited people in too close, you know what I'm saying? Um I've given away too much too soon. You know what I'm saying? So I've had those moments where, you know, I'm like, oh yeah, it's so just you know, I I've given people access or open doors and things like that to where I regret it later because I was not thinking about that other person's intention. I was just thinking about mine's. Um, and so I've had to learn those boundaries, you know, um whether it was male or female, you know what I'm saying? And um, and then on on the flip side of boundaries is also learning how to set them for um for for my own sake of peace. You know what I'm saying? There was a time when, like even nowadays, there's a time man you can call me at 12 at night, one in the morning, two in the morning, but I'm up. I'm gonna ask you the phone. But I've also learned how to create boundaries now where I'm like, well, if you lucky kid if I'm gonna ask you after 10. Because I'm with my family.

unknown 1:14:04

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:04

I'm at home trying to tend to them. I'm trying to, and I would at some times put them on the back burner to be available for other people. Because I didn't have the boundary there to say, like, they come before this, or they come before that. You know what I'm saying? So there are times when it's like, oh, somebody needs me to get them a ride, babe, I'm about to go. She like, what in the morning? I'm like, I got him though. That's my name. I'm about to do. And she's just like, where's your boundaries? Like, you know, and and I had to learn like that, you know, but because I was so giving. My heart was so genuine, you know what I'm saying? And so, um, I've had to learn how to just say, like, nah, I can't do that, bro. It's too late, or nah, man, I, you know, I'm with the fam right now. You know, I used to be like, you, oh, you need me? We could be eating that dinner. Oh, you need me, or you wrap the plates up. Yeah, all right, bro. I'm gonna, and she was just like, where's and so I've learned these things, man, like to put them in place to be like for my own peace, for the respect of my wife, the respect of my family, um, you know, and just respect for myself. You know what I'm saying? To not drain myself, you know, I'd be tired, dead tired, because I'd have dhousand things for people all week, and nothing for myself, you know what I'm saying, or or barely anything for them. So um I've had to learn boundaries just whether it was in relationships, how I open myself up to people or let people read, but also just in protecting and respecting my household and its peace and its honor, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:30

So um, I would say for me, I think boundaries are important. Um, but I think sometimes they do change depending on like where you are in life or like your responsibilities. Okay. Because like if I compared the boundaries I had like in college to like graduating and then being a wife and a mom, it like consistently changed. Um like in college, I was doing any and everything as far as like that came off crazy audience.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:06

My wife did not.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:08

I had a busy schedule in college. There, there we go. I was taking classes, I was working, and then again, I was still doing stuff at church. We had I was in like three, four different choirs, singing groups, and then again, we would have rehearsal. It felt like all day, every Saturday. I'm singing, I'm doing the dance ministry, doing the usher board, doing children's church. Like I was my schedule was so busy, and it's like I was running myself in the ground, to be honest. Yeah, and I didn't realize the burnout that I was experiencing because it's like I would just sleep because I was just so tired from just having long days every day.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:56

Um, so like we would hang out, and I'm like, I'm just gonna take a nap.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:59

Like, when we supposed to be hanging out, man, sleep the whole day. I'm like, bruh.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:04

Whenever we would hang out, whatever, but I like that was like college, and then when we got married, I kind of slowed things down a bit, and then I started to learn saying no, being okay with the fallout of the no. Because it's like when I was dead tired, I had to like overextend myself to do what somebody needed me to do, but it's like y'all don't have to deal with the repercussions of how I feel in my body to have done that, or it's like it just became an expectation. So they were just like, oh, parents do it. Yep. And I'm like, y'all not even asking me? Right. I'm gonna do it. Right. I'm like, no, this, I can't do this no more. So I slowed down quite a bit after we got married. And then when I got pregnant, I really slowed down. I said, oh no, I can't do this. Yeah. Because again, it's almost like I started to realize, like, if you don't set the boundary, don't expect anybody else to set it. Exactly. And when I was pregnant, again, I was still involved in certain ministries, and it felt like nothing was being taken off my plate. Right. But part of it was, well, Paris, you have to set the boundary. You can't expect other people to do it for you. Um, so after that, oh yeah, I was just like, no, this is this is important because it's like I I'm only gonna do so much. And then a part of it was I'm thinking, oh, well, if I don't do it, who will? They're gonna have to figure it out. That's what I'm not doing. Yeah, that's where new leaders are born. I'm like, I can't do it. We're gonna have to delegate some stuff, or y'all just gonna, it's just not gonna get done.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:45

Yeah, and a lot of times you find out these people only gonna get mad at you because they lazy. Like they expect you to be the go-to for everything. So it's like if you don't do it, probably ain't gonna get done the right way. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:58

So and they and they because they know that they bank on that, yeah. And they bank on you having the expectation of like you do things a certain way that you wouldn't want to see it go bad. Right. So they like, oh yeah, just if you let it go, look how bad it can get. It is gonna get bad, and that's the cycle. Because when she was like nine months pregnant, they like, yeah, where'd you go come sing this Sunday? I'm like, my wife's not about to get up and sing nothing. She's nine months pregnant, she can barely get out of the car. Y'all talking about to get up there and sing.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:28

Man, like I'm out of breath.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:30

Watch that, bro. She can't take breath. Hey, watch that, bro. Ain't no way. But I think again, that was just the expectation. People just like, you go sing. Like, who else go sing, parents? Like, granted, there's other people who can do it. Yeah, but they just they prefer to sit in the shadow of her. It's just like, bro, she ain't no shadow. She's pregnant.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:53

So quick, have somebody ever tried you like this? They did something wrong on purpose because they know you was gonna snatch the mic out their hand so you could do it the right way, and that could be cooking, that could be singing, that could be chores, whatever. But people would intentionally do it wrong because they know you're gonna be like, oh, I'll just do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:16

The thing with your mama and your sister trying to put the thing together.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:20

So that's more of a current example. Yeah. That's more of a current example. Okay. Because another thing I like to do, again, part of the creative part. I love building stuff. I love Legos. Yeah. I did the connect sets when I was younger. I love it. So I love putting stuff together.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:38

So like furniture. She can she everything in here, she probably would have built herself.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:43

I love doing this. It's like a puzzle to me. So I just really enjoy it. But anyway, that's a known thing in my family. Yeah. So again, I'm like, the boundary is if you need help with stuff like that, tell me in advance.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:57

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:58

So I can make the time to do it. Because I don't want to feel rushed. I don't want to, you know, feel stressed. Tell me ahead of time. Because again, it's like, not only am I stressing myself, I'm feeling stressed from you because this is something you need to get done. It's like you need it. So I'm like, tell me in advance.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:16

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:17

So that didn't happen. But I still end up getting a phone call from my mom and my sister trying to put the snowblower together. And they FaceTime me. And my mom is basically like, Paris, can you help us? Like, you should just come on over here. And I'm like, you didn't tell me in advance. Like, I'm doing something. I have stuff to do. But then I see my sisters there. I'm like, y'all can do it. Y'all are strong, intelligent black women. Y'all can figure this out. But they my mom still wanted to call me and FaceTime me. And in a way, she's like saying it in a passive way. But I genuinely think she's insinuating.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:56

Tell me you want me to do this without telling me you want me to do this.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:00

But my sister is there helping her. So now you offended her.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:04

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:05

You did call her first. And again, they live closer together. Yeah. So my sister drove over here to help you put it together. Right. And she's doing a good job. Right. Just now to your liking. Right. Because you are having to help her. Yeah. If I do it typically because I enjoy doing it, you leave her alone by myself. Right. But she's having to help put this thing together. And you can my sister, she's always been like the more vocal one. Mm-hmm. And my mom is so they clash. And they're both vocal expressive. So my sister's like, we're not on that part yet. Why you keep trying to push me to this part? We're not on this part yet. Meanwhile, they still have me on FaceTime. And I'm like, y'all got it. Y'all could do it. I'm not coming over there though. Like you didn't tell me in advance. But y'all got this. Y'all could do it. Y'all just gonna have to learn to work together.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:04

Right. But y'all can do it. And I was proud of her because in the past, I would have gone. She would have been like, oh Bush, I gotta go. I mom and mom needs help. They can't do this.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:12

And I'll be like, Yeah, I would have felt what are you doing? Accustomed to that. And again, I can't fully blame them. That's part of on me too.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:19

Setting your own boundaries. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:21

So it's just like I didn't tell them that. I didn't enforce that. Part of it also is imposter syndrome. Like, I don't want y'all thinking I can't do it. Or it's like this idea of I can help with everything. Like I can still be the perfect daughter and wife and all the things. I can make it all work. And it's like, no, no, you can't.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:42

You can't, and sometimes you don't have to.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:44

Yes. You don't always have to be Superman. Go-to person for it. Yeah. So, yeah. But I was like, nah, alright. Y'all got it. Hooray, hoorah. Exactly. Y'all from over here. Man. And they did. But that's not something they're used to doing, like you said, is working together. So as soon as my mom felt like, oh, this is not going to be fair.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:10

Yeah, yeah. Man. It's the default button. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:16

That was them per like. I don't think she was purposely messing up. I just think my mom preferred for it to be done a certain way and at a certain time. And she called me and was trying to kind of give me a couple of things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:27

I think she purposely was trying to make it sound more worse than it was.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:31

Right, it wasn't that. Yeah. They were putting it together. It's just my sister's like, we're not on that part. And she kept trying to rush to the other part. And it's like, so y'all just having a disagreement.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:40

Control. Yeah. Man. So next. We got uh this one's gonna be for both of y'all, but I want to start with Vince. Okay. How important is it to have a safe space mentally, physically, spiritually, as well as both?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:00

Um I think that I I say it from this perspective. In our marriage, it's super important that we have that across the board because regardless of whoever else we're connected to, there's no one else more connected to us than each other. Right. And so it's like there are times and even still we have to be that safe place for each other when the issue is each other. Ooh, now you cook. You know what I'm saying? Come on, he just turned the heat on.

unknown 1:25:38

Man, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:39

Heat on 70 degrees right now. I seen some chicken bouillon on the table, but I didn't know what you was doing with it, okay?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:45

Slowly whipping. Slowly whipping. Chicken dipping. Let's go. You know what I'm saying? Because it's like, even when she, even when she I feel offended by her, I still need you to be a safe place for me to let you know that you were that offense. You know what I'm saying? And and and and not feel judged by you, not feel attacked by you. You know, there was there was a time we used to get into it because I would be like, I'm trying to explain my grievances to her, and then she'd be like, but you did this. And I'm like, you can't never stick to you. I'm coming to talk to you about how you hurt my feelings today. And instead of saying, I hear what you said, I'm sorry I did that, how can I not do it? Your automatic response is to then say, Well, let me come at you. And it's like, that no longer makes me feel safe. That does not let me feel like I'm seen or heard. Because instead of acknowledging my pain, you reply with something that you, if you really felt the way, you would have been said it. But you're really just pulling out a bullet for the sake of pulling out a bullet to shake that.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:48

Again, based on the most important relationship I've had my whole life, that was a learned behavior.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:56

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:56

So it's like again, it's just it's something that wasn't natural to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:02

For sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:03

It's something I had to unlearn and replace it with healthy communicating.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:08

Yes. But based on who I communicated, that's that's how your mother dealt with you. It was like if you had criticism for her, she came back with stronger criticism than Trump George. So you were just receiving what not safe back. You know, so and again, it's tough because I'm coming from a traumatic space of like in my home I wasn't safe as a kid. Now I don't feel safe again as an adult. And so it's like we're having these, these, these back and forths, but it's like now we're at a place where I think we understand the importance of like, I don't, even if it's you, I it's it has to be safe. I have to be willing to hear you tell me what I've done wrong. I need you to be able to accept to hear what I say you've done wrong. We can sit down and discuss it. You know, just not even longer. We just a couple days ago, we had a quick morning spat. Little spar. We had a quick little spar in the morning. You know what I'm saying? Immediately, like she left, and I I just instantly texted her. I was like, hey, my bad. I was wrong. I felt this way, you felt that way. We could talk about it later so we can further have further introspection about it. But I just want you to know, like, be good, have a great day. That would, you know, I don't want you to. And she started texting me back, and then we ended up talking about it later. And it's like, that's what we didn't have in the beginning. Because it was such like it was like draw the weapon. Don't do this. Like we was just going back and forth, just like tiff attack. And we just shoot off the head. Yeah. The only thing, only thing I had going was I had more clips than her. Because eventually she would she she'd shut down. Yeah. And I'm still shooting her. You know what I'm saying? When you left this on the floor, bow. And you ain't, she just taking shots. Overkill, for the couple of things. Overkill. Because again, I'm coming from survival of fighting. Yeah. So I fight until I win. Yeah. With my stepdad, I'm fighting until I win, physically and verbally with him. Yeah. So this is all I know is if I'm go, if you go come for me, I gotta win.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:14

I can't afford to lose lose meant that I was gonna be in that hot. I go whelps again in the hospital in the police office. So it was like for me, it was like, okay, cool. When I argue, I argue to win. So now we're in a safe space. Now, listen, okay. But now we we understand the importance of like being a safe space for other people. Like, again, me and her mom have not had the best relationship because of a lot of a lot of various reasons, but again, she's my safe space. Yes, that's your mama, but you have to be my safe space for even that. Right. You know what I'm saying? Whether it's outside family, whether it's outside friends, whether it's things that come after both of us, whether it's things that's happening at my job, things that are happening at your job, things that are happening with our friendships or our families or whatever, when we come home and hat, we have to be able to just lean on each other. I gotta be able to hold you up when you can't, and you gotta be able to hold me up when I can't, and when we both can't, we should have enough to just lean on each other.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:15

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:15

Like, and and if one of us is the problem, then let's kill that so that we can get back to protecting each other. You know what I'm saying? So while we back to back fighting the world, my sword might bump you. And you might be like, hey, this sword.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:30

And I gotta be like, my bad, my bad, my bad. So we can go back to being on defense together.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:34

But don't get through off focusing on this little nick, and then not a world surrounding us.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:40

Now we look around, we surround it because we've been focusing on fighting each other. Yeah. So we we we've had to develop it, man. We you know, we've been married, we just celebrated last year, 11 years of marriage. Congrats too. We've been together 18 years. Okay, you know what I'm saying? Let me hit the crowd button. You know what I'm saying? Um but it's taken us like this whole time to like understand these things. Like, we we thought we were safe spaces for each other in the beginning. Because we was like best friends, we we was Gucci. We didn't argue for the seven years we dated. We never argued.

unknown 1:31:20

That's real.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:21

We never had a reason to fight for seven years while we dated. Then when we got married, the first year, I'm like, you leave why did you take my towel out the bathroom? She's like, she like, don't you want a new towel every day? I'm like, two days minimum? What are we doing here? Yeah, you're going through laundry soap doing that. Like two days minimum. I've been going through laundry soap doing all like we just you know what I'm saying, but it's like we would tit for tat. Yeah. Once we got married, we was living together, we didn't realize that we were going to tit for tat for so long. And it just took us finally like getting to a really rough spot in our marriage that we we were like at a spl a fork in the road of like, do we stay or leave this? Right. And I think once we decided to stay, the journey to like then reinventing our our marriage started with safe space. It started with that. Like we can't even get to anything else in our marriage as we reinvent it unless we agree the first thing we're working on is being a safe space. Right. On every level. Whether even physically, whether that's appreciating our bodies, respecting our bodies, respecting what you want to do, what you don't want to do, what you like, what you don't like, anything. We had to get to that place of okay, we thought we knew what we were doing. We don't. Now that we do, this is how we gotta goddamn make this work. Building blocks is a safe space. And I think since then we've just been killing yourself.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:04

We had a lot of good points. Thank you. But I think um again for me, I had to unlearn a lot of stuff. I think you did. And then I still had learning to do. Amen. Yeah, but um, even from like, because with the people, like it's the opposite for me. Like Vince, he was sharing too much. Me, I'm an introvert. I'm not sharing much at all.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:27

Um nothing. Zip much at all. Zip zero did you with the De Niro.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:34

When it came to boundaries, I didn't necessarily have to use any, because I'm not talking to people like that.

unknown 1:33:41

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:41

You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03 1:33:42

So it's just like, uh, but for me, it was bad because once I feel safe with you or I feel comfortable with you, sometimes I overshare. And then in in the aspect of marriage, that could be a problem. Especially when it's like you're trying to talk to somebody you trust and you're trying to explain the situation, but then because you don't, I guess, use the right words, it could come off as something else.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:09

Right. Oh, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:10

Me being an introvert and not having a lot of friendships, I'm not used to expressing myself accurately. So sometimes I'm using I'm not using the right word to describe it quite accurately. So there were situations where we would go places, talk to friends, we get in the car. He's like, but why did you explain it like that?

SPEAKER_01 1:34:30

Like you got me out here looking like man, what I'm like the white hower.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:43

It was like the extreme. Like I would use the extreme like work to explain, and it wasn't that. Yeah, but because I'm still learning how to express myself and explain stuff, right? She's just like, I'm getting all these straight bullets, though.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:56

Right. She's like a little kid just learning how to use words.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:00

Yeah, basically.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:04

They like what he does what to you?

SPEAKER_03 1:35:09

Or like sometimes I feel like a piece of me. A piece of me?

SPEAKER_01 1:35:12

He objectifying you, man. And she just like, she like, I felt good talking about that. I'm like, no. No, you told people the wrong thing. She's like, I'm using words. I'm like, wrong words. So um, yeah, so I just had to learn how to negotiate that with her because I want her to feel safe when she talks to me. You know, even with my daughter, it's the same way. I remember I was very she used to be like, bro, baby, you so hard on her. And she was like two. And I'm like, learn how to stand up, learn how to stand. I'm like, just because I I'm so big on like seeing how today's kids are, man, seeing how people raise their kids, I'm very big on like I'm not letting you turn out to be like these kids. Like, I'm just not playing that. You're not about to be these kids out here today. Like, and my whole thing is if I don't have your ear and your respect now, when you get older, it's gonna be so much harder. Because you're gonna be in such a defiant mode when you get older. Right. So I need it now. I need to have you on drill mode now, so that if I speak to you, the tone in my voice will get your attention when you're older. You know what I'm saying? But that was just my fear, right? Of like parenting. So I'm just overdoing it. And I remember thinking, like, I'm doing this the right way. This is honorable. And I remember, you know, I was going off with my daughter one day, she was like three, four, maybe. And I'm just like, and we're in the bathroom, and she just like starts like whimpering. And I'm like, what's the matter with you? What what what are you whimpering for now? And she was like, You're like a monster. She just started crying, and I was like, Damn. No safe space. And it just, bro, it crushed me. Like, I in that moment, I literally just hugged her and I was like, I'm so sorry. Because she's old enough to understand something evil and ugly as a monster. How it makes her feel. How it makes her feel, and I'm doing that. While my best intention is, I'm really just trying to make sure you understand how much daddy wants to connect with you and have your respect so that we can be in lockstep. I'm doing I'm doing this wrong. And my I'm not creating a safe space for you to feel loved right now. And that instantly changed how I started interacting with her. But that's why I've we've understood these things now. As we've like reinvented our home, reinvented our marriage, and reinvented the way we parent over the last few years. We've been understanding, like we look back on our old stuff and we're like, ah, it was a safe space. We didn't have that. All of our issues just came down to safe space.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:00

You know, we weren't safe, we weren't protecting each other. And I think that that's ultimately what we've been trying to establish is making sure we have each other's back no matter what. We have our daughter's back no matter what. And we we make sure those lines of communication between the three of us are solid. Our daughter can talk to us about anything, we can talk to her about anything, and we make sure it's a fair, safe space of criticism, judgment, encouragement, empowerment, uplifting, everything from good to bad. We make sure everybody feels safe in receiving and hearing it.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:37

I gotta say, bro, hello parents too. We've been cooking in here. Cooking. We've been cooking to here. Cooking boy on. Hey, oh god. So I gotta say this, bro. We in the fourth quarter with it. Yeah. Got a few minutes left. Yeah, yeah. Um, we're gonna do this final wellness check. How y'all feeling before we find them?

SPEAKER_01 1:39:02

Man, um, you know what I'm saying? I'm gonna hug my daughter extra tight tonight. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know. I think, man, you know, is I was just telling my um grandmother this on over the weekend that uh my my my granddaughter my daughter went to stay with her. And um I was telling my wife this, I was telling her, like, man, it just it reminds me of when I was my daughter's age, going to my grandma's house. And now I'm watching my daughter go to my grandma's house. And the same joy she has that I used to have as a kid, and the same determination. Like I used to be like, Mom, can I please go to grandma's house? I was so determined to get to my grandma's house. And my daughter is the same way. Um, and I was telling my grandma, I said, man, I'm so grateful that you're here still to give my daughter the same experience that you gave me. You know what I'm saying? Because her and my mom, my grandmother, I'm sorry, my great-grandmother, this one, this is my great-grandmother, yeah. Um my mom is she's so busy, she got a lot going on, but she she finds unique ways to spend time with my daughter.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:10

She's really good at that.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:12

But my great, my grandmother, Kobe's great-grandmother, she is like retired. She don't do nothing but watch HGTV all day. And she just adores Kobe. And so I just have such a joy watching my my grandmother give to my daughter that same safe space that she gave me. Because growing up with all the chaos, my grandmother's home was a safe space because she was a believer, and she would pray for me. I could tell her things and she would keep it a secret. And even if she did address it with my mom, she would do it when I wasn't like there. You know, I'm in a bathroom or something, or you know, and she's like, you know, Mikhail told me such and such, you know, is everything okay? You know what I'm saying? And um, but my grandmother was my refuge for a lot of years, you know what I'm saying? And so to see her, to see my daughter just have that same affinity for my grandmother, and to see how she just opens up around my grandmother, it just gives me that hope of like, man, she's giving my daughter that same safe space to just be herself. Um, and so I've just been grateful for that, man. And so even thinking about what we talked about tonight, you know, looking back on my life, it's like, man, I'm grateful that I went through what I went through. Because if I don't, I don't know if I give my daughter everything she has now.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:34

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:34

The safe space that she that I try to be to her, the type of father that I try to be to her. I don't know if I give her that exact same DNA if I don't have the things that I've been through. So, you know, just talking about it again with you, man, it's like it just has given me this kind of reflective thing of being grateful for the pain. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like grateful for the pain, grateful for the storms. Because when I was 14 in my room on my knees in tears, crying out to God and saying, why? Why me? When is this ever going to stop? You know, days of wanting to commit suicide, days of running away from home, um, and just being like, there has to be another way. Being jealous of my friends and their family and seeing them be happy at their house, knowing I had to go home. Like, to be grown now and do the opposite for my daughter and give her everything that I didn't have. It's like, man, talking about it now kind of just makes me grateful that I went through it because it gave me everything I needed to do what I do now. So, shout out to you for getting me in my feelings, bruh.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:44

Told you, I'm getting better at it. You know what I'm saying? Oh my gosh. Shout out to the man.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:50

Sorry, how do I follow that? I don't know the world.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:53

Sorry, I'm a deep thinker.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:55

How do I follow that, bro? Why did you have to do that?

SPEAKER_00 1:42:58

I mean, your your whip. I'm just seeing where you at. You know what I'm saying? As far as how you feeling now, but vents went down.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:07

That's what I'm saying. And he's so good at that. He's so good at that. And sometimes I'll just be like, Ditto, everything he said. No, but I'm saying I feel good about it again. I'm stepping out of my comfort zone doing this.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:21

True.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:22

But you did such a great job. Like you answered, you asked such great questions. I didn't really feel like, oh man, I don't know what I'm doing. Yeah. I don't know. You navigated it so well. And again, I do appreciate the fact that even though you had your own set of questions, as we were answering them, you came up with new questions, and it just again made the conversation that much more like deep and thought-provoking.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:47

For sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:47

That was cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:48

Um shout out to you for even doing it because this was last minute. Like I told her, I didn't tell her nothing, bro. I was like, get in the car. We're about to go do a podcast. She like, what? I'm like, whoa with it. But I like doing that because again, for her overthinking, that's how I challenge her overthinking by not always giving her the answer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:06

So a lot of times it's like. No, we'll know. Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:09

So I just trust her a lot to do. A lot of times I'm I'm always pushing her to grow by being like, I'm not gonna tell you why. Because if I tell you why, that makes your overthinking start. So, do you trust me to just come with me and do this podcast? And she's just like, okay. You know, so for her to even do it is like again, she's proving how much she's healing from doing the overthinking and stuff. So I'm proud of you, baby, for doing this tonight. Get that clap button. Clap button.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:44

But no, uh, yeah, I feel good about it. I hope it helps somebody.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:48

Um, again, though we come from drastically different backgrounds. Okay. I think again, overall, it it complements each other as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:58

Yeah, because we ain't even told you our marriage story. This is just about her and me. So, like, you ain't.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:04

But look, that's the thing, bro. This was so out cold. I literally created like 50 more questions as y'all was here. Like, I didn't even get to half the stuff I wanted to talk to y'all about. You like running back? Like, guess what? I'm out to sucker them into a part two. Dealing with marriage and just different stuff, and I'm like, Yeah, but y'all was y'all uh feedback was so deep that I it was too many questions that I was pulling from everything. So I'm just like, we cooking too much. You know what I'm saying? We got a buffet tonight, you know what I'm saying? We gotta hit a buffet spread. Hey, so I'm like, I feel too comfortable, you know what I'm saying? I feel like we on a Netflix special right now. You feel me? So I'm like, look, let's keep cooking. Yeah, say this for part two. They don't know it yet. Hey, hey, let's run it back for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:10

Yeah, I think, man, we never planned on ever like kind of telling our story or sharing our experience with people. Like, that's not something we sat down, like, one day we go. But we've had the privilege, man, to sit with couples and other married people and and be an influence to them or try to support them or be um some somewhat, I don't even know, kind of of example just because of how much we've stuck by each other. I think that's what it is. People see is our union and they just see how much we it's so effortless between us. You know what I'm saying? We like we don't have to really try. We just, you know, we was podcasting before you even started the second time. We over here like, yeah, because so like our deep thinking comes from the fact that we spend time just talking about stuff, and and we we spend time just being casually open and and asking each other, like man, how you doing? What's going on? You know, when she has issues with her family or issues with my family, like we talk about it. Like, how does that make you feel? You know, and we push each other, we challenge each other. You know, we don't kind of just settle for her being her and me being me. You know, she pushes me to be better. Um, and I push her to be better, and we respect that about each other, and I think that's why people have kind of taken to our story sometimes and just been like, man, bro, y'all, that'll be y'all be dope, and we be like, thanks.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:32

But yeah, I think it's because you know both the good and the bad of me. And then even like the bad versions. You've seen versions nobody else has seen. I trust your judgment. I trust your you pushing me. Yeah, um, but you also inspire me because I know your backstory.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:52

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:52

And I know all the stuff you had to overcome. I was there like, he can do that, and again, you're still present, you still show up for people. Right. You're still, you know, you have peace, you have joy. Yeah. Alright, what's my excuse? I need to start looking into again what self-work do I need to do in this area. Yeah. Because again, you overcome a lot. And then the longer we've been together, again, it again, the level of trust has grown. Right. So you share a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:23

But again, it's just all the more expiring. You know, do you still show up the way you do or suffer for other people? Despite, you know, like you said, that traumatic upbreak.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:40

Oh, yeah, for sure, bro. For sure. Um we pulled out a classic. I I yeah, hey, we pulled all the classics. You know what I'm saying? We just went crazy in this joint. But uh, I got one last question. Okay. And it's like, how would you or what advice would you give somebody that's struggling with a mental issue? Like their mental health is just all over the place. Maybe they don't have nobody to talk to. Maybe they don't feel comfortable. You know what I'm saying? Like maybe the problem is at home. Maybe they it's it could be a repeat of what you and I where the adults in the household might be, you know what I'm saying, monstrous to these people. And I'm not talking about just raising no voice, I'm saying they're actually you know what I'm saying, causing real trauma and you know, messing these kids up, or it could even be adults. What would you say to these people, or what advice would you give them to help with whatever issues they may be facing?

SPEAKER_03 1:49:48

I was gonna say that's hard because again, I I don't think I have as much insight with that because that necessarily wasn't my situation, but um. Um trying to think. I would say for me, you know, like you said, don't just limit yourself to the people in your family or your household or like your blood relatives. Like there is like different versions of family, and you can't pick your family. Like that's something I've learned, you know, just being with Vince. Like, though he has family, like his friends are like truly like his core family. For sure. And it's like if you have people like that in your proximity, you should probably cling to them to kind of like offset the chaoticness that you have in your house. Like, because if you can't, and like you said, not all adults are just like mature where they're able to raise their kids and give them advice and lead them the right way because they're struggling from however they were raised. But again, if you have like friends, like good, genuine people outside, cling to them. I would say tap into that resource, cling to them, confide in them. And again, it's like don't be afraid, I guess, to seek out like healthy resources or healthy people that you can connect with this outside of it. Don't feel shameful. Again, don't get caught up in thinking, like you said, recognize the the people for where they are and like what how they're limited, and just move on as best you can, I would say. Because like you said, the longer you stay there or take that stuff in, it just makes it more challenging, you know, to get away from it or move past it, I would say. Um trying to think what else was there. Yeah, as far as that like scenario you brought up, that's the best advice I I could think to give.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:56

No, um, I agree with you. And I think that um, you know, it's a few things I'm making sure because uh Paris always says I'm very long-winded. You know, she'll be like, baby, you got the deep thoughts.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:08

At this point, just go for it. She'll be like, You 40 minutes, you like 30 minutes?

SPEAKER_01 1:52:14

She'll be like 30 examples and everything.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:17

A sermonette, not a sermon.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:19

Man, okay. But um, I will say, man, that one, I think, you know, understand that that you don't have to go through it alone. You know, I think every at every stage of trauma that we're going through on a day-to-day basis, there's somebody that can handle it with you. And I think sometimes we don't give credit to those people. You know what I'm saying? And and those people change over time. And you just gotta know that it's changed. You know, we sometimes cling to one person, so then when they're no longer available, we regress. And it's like, no, just find the next person who's it's like a re a relay race. You know, you pass a baton to the next person, and that person carries the load for you for a couple years, maybe. Then you meet a new friend that person carries the load. Then it's a parent or it's a grandparent or so. So when I look back over my life, it's like before I met Randy and Sterling, you know what I'm saying? It was the pastor and his family across the street. You know what I'm saying? It was my mom's best friend who uh me and her daughter was very close, and and her mom was like a second mom to me. You know what I'm saying? And I I can look back and trace and pinpoint people who were there for me that kind of got me through for a couple days or a month or so. Like this person helped me from 10 to 11. That person helped me from 11 to 11 and a half, and I met somebody who got me from 11.5 to 13, then I met somebody who got me from 14 to 17. There was always somebody, you know what I'm saying? So there's always a person that's in your life who can help carry a load for you if you're looking and paying attention for it. So you don't have to do it alone. Um, and then the other thing is that um understand that you should have grace for yourself and grace for your trauma. Because you may not be able to fix that traumatic situation for another 10 years. You know, when I think about my dad, my real father, he was probably one of the most traumatic things that I I dealt with and my stepfather. For my real father, it started when he left when I was a baby. The trauma started then. I wasn't hip to it, but it was it was already building itself. And then it it ignited when I was 14 and I met him. And it doubled when I was 16, and it tripled at 20, and then it didn't show its face again until I was 30 and I had my daughter. So some traumas, it's like some people tell you, like, just hurry up and deal with it, get it over with. Some traumas may not make themselves available to be dealt with until a certain period in time, and you have to have grace for yourself and that trauma to know that when it's time to fix it, it will be time to fix it. You know, and at 30, when it was time for me to fix that situation with my dad, that was the perfect timing. I had already been a man for, you know, 20 to 30, I'd been a man for 10 years, I had done some things, established myself, I had already had this, I was ready to then deal with my father in that traumatic situation. Just like it took another um another six years from 30 to 36 to finally deal with the trauma of my stepdad.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:30

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:31

And that was right before he died. So it was like the trauma has its time and place what it's gonna do. It's gonna say, now, let's work on it. And if it's not today, it might not be tomorrow. You might not get that forgiveness or that apology, or you might not deal with that person for 10 years. But when you see it happen, when you know it, and you would feel it in on the inside that this is a moment that I can either fix my trauma or I can stay traumatized, and you would know it for yourself. Always go for that moment because that's the time when it's time to fix it. And until you get to that point, let that person be. You know, my stepdad, I didn't see him for another 10 to 11 years before I finally saw him before he passed. And I didn't have to go looking for that moment, you know, I didn't have to go looking for closure, like people say. The closure came to me. And when it presented itself, I was open enough to say, hey man, I forgive you. And when he passed, I was able to actually cry for that man. The person who I spent years saying, I hate him, I never cry at his funeral. I wept at his funeral because I no longer was holding on to the villain, I was weeping for my dad. Who was my dad from two to all my life. You know what I'm saying? So just let trauma, let it work itself out. In due time, everything plays itself out the right way. That's all I got.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:58

King Kong and got ish on me. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? You feel me? For the people that don't know, we just recorded, what was it, like 40 minutes? At least 30 minutes. Right, 30 to 40 minutes of the this episode that wasn't getting recorded or that got recorded and deleted, or something, something crazy happened. But recording, like we popped out, yeah, redid it, and cooked even harder. Hey, stove on all eyes, all eyes, all eyes, and I'm feeling like pop all eyes on me. You feel me? All eyes on me. Hey, I gotta say I definitely appreciate y'all for coming through.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:46

Man, I'm honored.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:48

This look, this has been a really dope, a very dope, the ultimate, you know what I'm saying, OD fire out the gate.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:01

Listen, I'm trying to compete with Big Brother Rob. He his episode's been crushing. I'm like, I gotta, we gotta come on here and talk some talk. Look, bro, that last one y'all had was cooking.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:11

Hey man, what can I say, man? It's been a great episode of therapy in motion. I wanted to say this is gonna be couples edition, you know what I'm saying? Couples therapy. Let's let's go. Yeah, yeah. And we're gonna bounce back, you know what I'm saying? We gotta bring y'all back for a part two, like I said. Because I got just too many questions for y'all. Just it's it's I don't know where it's gonna take us. We might get a Netflix special after this one. They probably gonna want us to keep cooking, you know what I'm saying? Oh run. Hey, I come out the first. Yes, sir. Till next time. Y'all, you know, you're gonna be able to do that.